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Raymond Rohauer : Well, Marion, how do you
feel now that you've heard the people out there ?
Marion Mack : I still can't believe it. They treated me as if I
was Gloria Swanson. I'm really glad now that you found me and brought me out here,
although to tell you the truth, at first I thought you were some kind of nut.
RR : Marion, I wonder if you would mind
going over some of the things you were talking about with your fans out there, so that we
could get it on the record, so to speak. By the way, is this the first time you made a
personal appearance with the film ?
MM : Oh yes, it is. You know back in 1927 neither Buster nor the
producers thought much of the picture. It was a routine comedy, and they didn't make any
big fuss about opening it, no personal appearances or anything. And also, by that time I
had other interests, and in fact I was practically out of the picture business when the
film opened - at least out of the acting stage of the business. So tonight is my very
first personal promotion with the film. In fact, this is the first time I ever saw The
General and didn't have to pay !
RR : You mean you had to buy a ticket to
see your own performance ?
MM : And not just once, either. My husband and I attended the
opening of the picture, but purely as spectators. We both liked it, of course, but we were
surprised when it took off as it did. It was the audiences that made it such a hit, the
studio never realised what a gem they had in their hands untilI the money started rolling
in. And in later years, every once in a while I used to go to one of the revival theaters
when The General was showing. At first I used to tell them I was the co-star, but I
think they either didn't believe me, or it meant nothing to them . I was sort of hoping
one of the managers would let me in free, but they used to say something like "Oh,
really?" or "That's nice," and then they would politely show me where the
box office was. You see what fun it is to be a famous movie star!
RR : Don't give it a second thought,
Marion . Back in the early fifties, when I ran a theater in Los Angeles, Buster Keaton
himself used to come and buy a ticket like anyone else, because none of my ticket takers
recognized him.
Now tell me, Marion, how did you get to work with Keaton on his most important film ?
MM : Buster was looking for an old-fashioned girl, with long
curly hair, for the character of Annabelle Lee, because they wanted everything to look
just right for the Civil War period. Well, Percy Westmoret who was making up Norma
Talmadge for some picture, heard this from her, and of course she knew it because her
sister Natalie, was married to Keaton. And Percy mentioned that he knew a girl with just
the right hair, because he had been my make-up man on Carnival Girl. And Norma said
to Percy he should try to find out if I was available and he called me and first thing he
said was: "I hope you still have those long curls you had in Carnival Girl
!" Well, Raymond, this was the year everyone was bobbing their hair and so only about
a couple of days before I cut my hair short, too, and I told it to Percy and he said
"Don't worry, we'll give you a fall or something."
RR : A what ?
MM : A fall, you know a wig. So that's what I wore to the
interview with Buster Keaton.
RR : Who was present there ? Was Keaton
personalIy in on the interview ?
MM : Yes, he was there, but he didn't say much. The guys who
really talked to me were Lou Anger, the studio manager, and Clyde Bruckman. And then they
sort of looked at Buster, and Buster said he thought I would do and so I was hired right
then and there.
RR : Up to this time, had you ever met
Keaton ?
MM : No, this was the first time. But, of course, everybody in
town knew about him, he was well known, but he didn't get around to many of the smart
parties and places and stuck pretty much to his own pals.
RR : Now, let's take up the story of The
General. How long did it take to shoot the picture ?
MM : We were six months on it. Actually, we went up to Oregon
twice. First in the spring, around April, we stayed for about four months. Then we went
back to Hollywood in September to do the studio scenes, and in October we went back to
Cottage Grove for some more outdoor shooting.
RR : How was it set up on location ?
MM : We all stayed at the Cottage Grove Hotels and every morning
we took that little train which you can see in the picture, and we rode out to location.
It took about an hour. Buster had his own chef with him, Willy his name was, and he
prepared hot lunch on location so that we could stay there all day.
RR : How did they shoot the picture ? Was
there a script ?
MM : They used what I think today would be called just an
outline Not a real script as we now know it. I mean, they told you what the scene was, but
you were expected to make up your own bits of business, and if anybody had an idea they
would try it and see how it played. Like when I have the scene where I'm getting on the
train Buster is driving, and l'm still supposed to be mad at him for not enlisting, I made
a big business out of admiring the medal my brother was wearing, and polishing his uniform
buttons just to show how much I admired him, because of course I know that Buster is
looking at me. And this was not in any script, but they said it looked cute and so it
stayed in.
RR : Can you think of other incidents Iike
that where you improvised right on camera ?
MM : Oh yes, we did that all the time. You know the scene on the
engine where I'm supposed to feed the fire, l'm supposed to be a little dumb about it. So
somebody said I should get hold of a log with a knothole in it, and throw it away. I did
that, but I didn't think the audience would understand it, and then I saw a very small
piece of wood, and I picked it up and threw it in. Buster liked it so right away he built
it up; I mean he picked up an even smaller piece, just a splinter really to see if I would
be dumb enough to use that, too. And of course I did, and so he jumped on me as if he was
going to choke me, but at the last moment he really gave me a little peck on the cheek. I
think I got that kiss more for thinking of the gag than for anything else. And none of
this was in written form at all.
RR : Did you get to know Keaton very well
as a person ?
MM : Buster was really a shy person. Some people said he was
aloof, but his aloofness was mostly just shyness, I think. He wasn't easy to know very
closely. Off screen, he always had his friends to play basebalI with; why, sometimes they
stopped the train when they saw a place to play baseball, and everything would be delayed
by a couple of hours. And also he had Natalie with him there, so there wasn't much
socializing, actualIy. I had never worked with a leading man like that before, I can tell
you, usually they were outgoing and chummy but Buster just stuck to the job and to his
little cliques and that was all. At first I felt a little bit, I'd say, ignored or
slighted, but then he got a bit more friendly as he lost some of his shyness, and he
turned out to be a very nice and warm person. And a very humble one, too, that's the
surprising part.
RR : When did you feel that the ice was
broken ?
MM : I guess when he started playing jokes on me. In his book,
when he made you the butt of some practical joke, that meant you were OK. Funny you should
mention breaking ice, one of the first gags he ever played on me was to have a couple of
the guys grab me from behind and hang me upside down over a cake of ice as we were on the
way to location on the train. I already had my make-up on, which took about an hour to do,
and all of it got ruined and I was very uncomfortable, so as soon as they put me down
again I went and punched Buster in the eye. It gave him such a shiner they had to stop
shooting for a week. This was before I understood that he meant no harm. He'd go to any
length to get a laugh, but there was no malice in his practical jokes.
RR : So he kept it up even after you hit
him in the eye ?
MM : Oh boy, he sure did. Like the time he found out that
sometimes I used to like to take my bike and go up about three miles from Cottage Grove to
a spot on the river that was nice and secluded, and there I would swim. So he and a couple
of his buddies sneaked up after me one day, and found where I left my clothes and tied
them up in such knots that I couldn't unravel them. And so I had to pedal back to Cottage
Grove in my bathing suit, and this was quite a shocking thing to do in 1926, you simply
didn't ride a bike in your bathing suit in those days, and a wet one at that!
RR : Did Buster play any tricks on you in
front of the camera ?
MM : Yes, he did. You know, I was told at the beginning that
there would be a double to do all the stunts and a girl was actually hired and was
standing by, so I was satisfied. But then, as Buster got to know me better I guess he
decided I was a good sport, and would you believe it, they never used that girl once as
far as I know. Like in the scene where I'm in the sack and Buster is supposed to step all
over me. He told me to get in the sack, and then they would cut and let the other girl
replace me for the rough stuff . But next thing I knew, he was stepping all over me, and
the cameras were grinding. But I didn't get mad at him that time, I must say he knew just
how to do it so it wouldn't hurt me. I guess it was his vaudeville training.
RR : Is that you in the scene on top of
the box car where you are drenched from the water tank ?
MM : That was another time when Buster said all I had to do was
help set up the scene, and then they would cut and the extra would get the soaking. Now,
as soon as we're up there Buster grabs the big spout and it comes off accidentally the
wrong way, and we get all wet. Right away, Buster realized it was probably funny, and so
now he puts the spout in the right way but also pulls the wire that releases the water,
and I got soaked the second time. So I got it twice, and both times I didn't know it was
coming, so the surprise you see on my face up there is for real. Boy, I sure was as wet as
a drowned rat that time. But it would never have looked so good if it hadn't really
happened by accident the first time,and if Buster hadn't helped a little the second time.
He had all his crew trained to keep the cameras running even if something unexpected
happened, you never knew what was going to turn out good when you saw it on the screen.
RR : Do you remember the scene where
you're climbing through a small opening in one of the cars ? Was it really as hard as it
looked ?
MM : Buster wanted it to look as if we were having a hard time,
so I had to put out one leg first and pretend I couldn't quite make it, and then try it
the other way. Actually, with those long skirts it was a bit awkward, and also the train
was actually moving, so there was some danger. I'm sure they would never do it today with
the real stars, they'd have stunt men or they'd fake the train motion in some way by back
projection. But in those days we never gave it a second thought, we just did it.
RR : When you get into the sack the first
time, there in the woods when Buster is supposed to pick you up, was that really you in
there when he Iifts it ?
MM : Yes, again, like I told you, he was supposed to let the
other girl get in, she was about ten pounds lighter, anyway, and so I didn't think Buster
would be too anxious to lug me around. But, as I told you, by now I think he got used to
me, and so he always found a way to keep me in the scene. But you knowt in this scene
another accident happened which they left in; he is supposed to empty the sack which is
full of Army boots, and when he did it his own shoes came off and for a while he couldn't
find the right ones among all the other shoes. It was never planned but since it looked
funny, they kept it in the picture. And then he gets me in the sack and all of a sudden I
feel he's picking me up, but he was stronger than I thought, and it never fazed him a bit.
And that's really my hand you see uncoupling the wagons from inside the sack later.
RR : Which scenes were done in the studio
in HolIywood ?
MM : Very few, really. The one that gave us the most trouble was
the night scene when Buster and I are running away from the cottage. We were three weeks
doing that, and even here in the studio he wanted to do it as true to life as possible,
and so we did it on the back lot at night, with rain and wind machines. We came in every
night at about 7, and stayed untiI maybe one am., and this went on for three weeks, and
each night we got soaked to the skin, it's a wonder we didn't catch pneumonia. But as I
said, we just never thought much about it. It had to be done, so we did it.
RR : What other scenes did you do in
Hollywood ?
MM : The indoor scenes, but as you know there were only a few.
Some of the supposed indoor scenes, Iike the one with Buster in the recruiting office,
these were actually done in Cottage Grove outdoors, with fake walls but no ceiling. Also
the scene at the beginning, where Buster comes to call on me and I sort of play a trick on
him and follow him to my house, that was all done up on location.
RR : How many times did you usually run
through a scene ?
MM : Most of them Buster okayed after one or two takes. The only
ones that had to be timed to precision were the gags, and they sometimes took five or six
tries. But they also shot quite a few whole scenes which were never used in the finished
picture, because Buster was a perfectionist and he only used the best scenes. That's why
the whole film is so tightly edited, he took out all the scenes which would have dragged
it out.
RR : Well, now, I hope you don't mind
telling us, Marion, why is it that you never made another picture after The General.
Surely, with the film being such an enormous success, you could have had your pick of
directors and films ?
MM : Well, Raymond, I was really an old-fashioned girl at heart.
And when Lou told me he didn't like me to be away on location so long, I realized we would
always have friction if I stayed in the business. Besides, he needed me to help him write
the short films he was now producing for Paramount, and I truly enjoyed that side of it
even more than I liked acting. Since my marriage meant more to me than anything else, I
just refused all offers and finally they stopped asking me. And you see, it worked. Lou
and I stayed married even when everyone in Hollywood was always getting divorced, and we
were only about two years away from our golden anniversary when he passed away.
RR : Did you see Keaton anymore after the
filming ?
MM : Yes, we remained friends and saw him off and on. I remember
one time, right after we finished The General, we were invited to a New Year's Eve
party in Caliente, at a night club owned by Joe Schenck, and Buster was there, and he did
one of his famous slides. As I told you, he would go anywhere for a laugh, and he did one
of the bits he learned on stage, slid on his stomach right across the whole dance floor.
And the reason he did it, he saw Peggy Joyce, she was one of the supposed glamor girls
with more jewelry than anyone in the world, sitting there across the floor, so he did the
slide and pretended to get all mixed up and accidentally on purpose he tipped over her
chair and spilled her all over the floor. I guess he just wanted to take her down a peg.
RR : There was a lot of publicity about
Buster's drinking problem. Did you ever witness any excessive drinking ?
MM : No, that all came later. He certainly never drank while
working, at least not so that it would affect him, or l'm sure I would have noticed. This
was still when he was in top form. Later, his marriage went on the rocks, and they
wouldn't let him make films the way he wanted to make them, and I felt really sorry for
him. That's what I think drove him to drink. But by then we had drifted apart anyway, and
we saw him very seldom. I prefer to remember him when he was at his best, when we were
playing little jokes on each other up in Cottage Grove on our little train. That was the
real Buster. Funny as hell on the screen and a true friend off the screen. They just don't
make them like that anymore.
RR : They never did even then, Marion. He
was unique.
MM : You said it, Raymond. He was the best of them all.
 Buster and Marion in The
General
Extracts taken from Buster Keaton's The General,
edited by Richard Anobile.
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Buster and Marion in The
General